Skari
Planning
SkaredCast
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Post by Skari on Dec 10, 2011 20:18:55 GMT -5
Back at home after a fantastic day of gaming. Just wanted to reflect on the times we have spent at spellbinder, rolling dice... moving models across the vast tabletops against opponents that we have now all come to call friends. I first walked into my first tournament at spellbinder about 4 years ago, it was the sidewalk days and I had 3 fun games. And now all this time later the experience has only matured and continued to be as encapsulating as it was all that time ago. So, what was my last tournament at Spellbinder like? Game 1- Came across Black Templars and 3 blessed hull landraiders. With only 5 haywires I was up for a crazy game, all in all I was able to win on the objectives part of the game wile horribly loosing at killpoints. The tertiary also went my way with some sneaky wracks that got into the no mans land. Game 2- Shane and his Blood Angels. Some fearless devastators gave me a run for my money for the first two turns. And smartly he had reserved a great portion of his force. That did not show up until turn 3 when I had already committed my forces across the table. The death company then leveled the playing field and I was unable to secure primary, getting more than 500pts than my opponent was hard, as well the central objective was contested and Shane won out on tertiary having more units that were viable and in fighting condition. Game 3 - Against Petes Imperial Guard... I was a bit nervous to play against the hydras but I was able to pull it off. Had a few hot turns of rolling and my army was able to pull away and take home the full objectives. Game 4 - Against Blood Angels. Good game close split with the edge to Mike. As always a good game, was quite a lot of fun those blood angels are a tough nut to crack. So, did ok ! A great way to end the year and the tournaments at spellbinder. Now the journey goes on. How about all your experiences?
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sara
SGU
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Post by sara on Dec 10, 2011 21:12:00 GMT -5
Was a good last hurrah, though generalship centered events are not my strong point. I struggled in all my games, but I found I outdid myself. The warmaster missions really helped. I could focus on a few and say screw it to another, usually the kill point ones because nids need to throw away their units a lot. 25 points for hive commander is always a bargain when it comes to adapting to missions. That troop outflank option is just gold.
My first two games were hella tough, because they were mech heavy. I just had to play to the missions and hold out, ignoring a lot of units I couldn't bother to deal with. I also had to throw away a lot of bugs for distractions, which worked. Y-Stealers are defiantly my new favorite unit, such a great distraction.
Then I had to face two GK armies after, which is a horrid matchup for nids. Managed to play to the objectives and win vs the one. The other it was hella close but he managed to kill everything but one Tervigon. He was pretty low on models end game too. Gaunts did better then I expected against the GK witch like units.
I got irritated at two things with the GK games. One, "psycodouche" grenades are... excuse my language, fucking bullshit. Secondly, no retreat wounds with multiple charges ticks me off to no end. Force 20 no retreat wounds on a Trigon is pretty dumb, when nids need their big bugs to support the little ones...
My dakka tyrant with guard is a way better bargain then my flying one, who just falls over and dies. At least I can get cover with a gaunt screen thanks to the guard. If I had the spare points, I would of ran two guards with it.
This is the nids last tournament outing, and spellbinders last event was a good end for them. I just don't like playing the mech spam game anymore, and I don't want to adapt to it. It's just way too stale for me to bother, and I don't like being forced to cheese too. I did the best I could with what I had. The rules just always stack against my beloved bugs. I hate to sound like a whiner, but I held in this long, which is way longer then most bug players. Causal games with hobby lists, the bugs will always be game!
Bought some goodies too, and drooling over the two posters I got. I am a bit of a poster nut lol.
Was also good to see you all again. I wish I could hang out with you all more but transportation is hard for me to come by :<
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Post by bionicfatguy on Dec 11, 2011 0:29:29 GMT -5
It was a fun day, played Pete, Ridvan, Brian and McBeath. I will admit I wussed out and had 2- 5 man scoring units in Razorbacks, but I am apparently trying to get in touch with my feelings.
Close game with Pete, with my only real goal to not have his Hydra's shoot down my Stormraven, which they did not. He couldn't shoot it down before it unloaded Death Co and the Blender Dread (Death Co Dread with Blood Talons). A minor win.
Game 2 with Ridvan was as described above, and I agree I was helped by having my 2 dev squads get red raged and go fearless. I also want to point out he was a pretty good sport about some the silly shit I saying and carrying on about.
Brian was victimized by a ridiculous number of cover saves by a dev squad. Logan and the Termies kicked Death Co's ass, but not before they took out a big squad. I did pretty good - for me, in the shooting. Actually won a game because I was a wuss and had scoring units.
Last game was James and I new it was going to be interesting when his friggin 8,000 shots a turn with everything twin linked, fortuned, and doomed ate my first dev squad 30 seconds into the game. Actually amazed that it was as close as it was. Stormraven actually killed 2 War Walkers and immobilized the third with shooting, yes I said shooting. Of course it got shot out of the sky 6 " from my board edge, so lemartes and the boys were hoofing it across the board, getting shot all the way. It was making me nuts because I couldn't get Lemartes to go bat-shit even though I was making him take a wound every time. You guys sure I have to make the feel no pain roll? Congrats James, Merry Christmas everyone, and looking forward to getting together in the New Year.
Shane
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Post by lucifer on Dec 11, 2011 6:48:21 GMT -5
Last tourney is finally over. Had another horrid day of losses and didn't want to stick around to get raped four times in a row. Looking toward playing at Black Knight as I can and have actually won once there. See ya'll at Hot Lead but otherwise as I don't feel like wasting time, gas and money to lose in Kitchener I'm off to Hamilton. Brad
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Post by misterdarren on Dec 11, 2011 8:20:54 GMT -5
My last tournament at Spellbinder's was near 7 months ago. I thought I'd chip in some comments of my own.
Thanks again for hosting so many great events over the years. When my previous contract ended last spring, one thing I was definitiely looking forward to was getting in some games at Spellbinder's. It was great to catch up with all my friends and fellow gamers, and sling some dice in Canada again. All the best in the future!
Now, that being said, I have other things to say. Sara, I feel your pain. My best friend here in Korea has over 4000 points of Tyranids, and he absolutely refuses to play 40K. It's out of the question at least until 6th edition. His reasons are in synch with your own.
I think part of the problem is that players don't put enough terrain on the table. There's no real set rule or guideline on how to do it, but I've seen it Canada and in Korea: there just isn't enough on the table. Mechspam thrives on clear LOS, a dearth of height, or minimal risk of getting stuck.
I particularly remember my last games at Spellbinder's. All four of them were variations on a theme: Battle at the Rugby Pitch. Granted, there were 6 tables being used at the same time; events had been occuring there regularly for years, more than enough time to collect enough terrain for that many tables or more.
I hope that we've learned something from this, and that wherever we play next, we make a greater effort to make a more interesting playing field. (and not just another football field with occasional lumps of terrain)
The other thing I'd mention is this. It was f'ing heartbreaking to come home to play the only event I could attend all year and be told: This is a Generalship Event. Your models look nice and all, but it doesn't matter. Not just a lack of prize support, but no consideration or appreciation at all for actually taking the time to paint your army, make conversions, build around an interesting theme etc.
What I would suggest moving forward, wherever that is, is to scrap the Generalship events. You can still have Best General and all that, but to ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS AND KEEP THEM COMING BACK, you got to offer more than a WAAC event.
I won my first two games in May, and going in to the break I was feeling good. However, a draw and an agonizing unfun loss later (which Mike apologized for) I felt like I'd wasted my time.
It's not just winnning and losing. Even when I won, I felt bad for my opponents, knowing that the loss took them out of contention for any recognition at the end of the day. To lose even one game that day, would make the rest of the games you played irrelavant. Even when I drew vs a tough (and ugly looking) Space Wolves build, I knew my day was done. I thought, well at least, a draw will give me a better pairing in the last round. Maybe I have a chance...?
Boy, was I wrong!
But to end on a positive note, I will say this. Spellbinder's was also the host to one of the most fun games of 40K I have ever played. It was an all-day Apocalypse game with Titans and Gargants and all manner of foolishness. All day I think we maybe got 4 turns in, and yet I've never had so much fun watching so much stuff blow up... on both sides!
Best wishes for the future, so long, and thanks for all the fish!
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sara
SGU
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Post by sara on Dec 11, 2011 13:50:34 GMT -5
Brad, I knew I was going to get rolled over going to this event too. If its a generalship event, why bother, but it was spellbinders last so I felt I needed to have one last hurrah. You should of seen my first two games.
First it was James's mech eldar, which I wouldn't do a thing too. So why would I even bother playing it? I did, because I wanted to see what I COULD DO. I castled up my end and tried to distract and pick the best targets that I could do something too. Fire prisms? I ignored them. His evil dakka warwalkers, I had to do something later, though I had to wait for reserves. There was only one thing I could do, was try to stop the end game vehicle contesting. I could only stop the one side, the other side zoomed in and contested. I was severely handicaped here, yet managed to play it out fine with what I had, and James said I played it all solid too.
Pete's game was even worse for me. The table had the shittiet terrain ever, and the middle piece had hardly any LoS blocking. He went first, so I had to sit there and watch everything get blown away for a few turns. I also had a -1 to my reserves after my tyrant died. Hive commander canceled that out when it was alive. There was only two objectives I could do. Grab the hill and populate the board. I had to say screw it to the victory points because I cant do crap to mech. I kept shitting out as many gaunts as possible to keep my population up, but pete edged me out there in the end. I did capture the hill though, even though all that hell. I could of been massacred again, but I got that hill and I was very happy about it. I lost yes, but I got one objective in a game I was severely crippled in. To me that's a personal little win in a horridly imballanced game.
Your game brad, I felt you were too passive. The only defence I have against you is shadows in the warp, and I am always forced to ignore landraiders. I castled up with a Trigon out there waiting for it, but it never came, and that could of gave me a huge headache if I had to deal with that LR. With you, I just focused on the objectives and grabbing terrain. My tyrant was a throw away to keep the terminators away. I have to throw away a lot of my big bugs to keep my goals safe. When it comes to kill and victory points, those objectives are throw aways for me.
Last game was pretty close, and the dice were the judge near the end. If only I killed that last death cult, it could of been a tie, but it got into the landraider and grabbed an objective. Then again he killed me off my last objective with what I had left, probaly would of still won. It was gray knights again, though a horde one. All those power weapons made my life hell, and also, no retreat wound loop holes MURDERED ME. Its one of the biggest fuck you to tyranids in the game!
I play Tyranids, a severely crippled army right now, yet I did better then I thought I would. I didnt pack up and quit, I just kept going. You just gotta work on those tactics and don't be shy on being aggressive.
If the tournament is generalship prize too, I tend to say fuck it, but this was a special event so I sucked it up.
I would also like to see warmaster scenarios in more events. They work extremely well. If it was just the usual objectives, I probaly would of been out right murdered. The 3 objectives is great for the more crippled armies and forces you to strategize more. If only there was more terrain, it would of been even better. I was on that stupid wide open fucktarded table for 2 games. It was the worst table in the tournament terrain wise!
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Post by mcbeath on Dec 12, 2011 0:20:13 GMT -5
sara: You played a great game, you did what you could... focus on the objectives you felt you could take and ignore the rest. Frankly it came down to a few failed armour saves late game that shifted my focus towards the objectives. At times it's all you can do, decide where you can win an focus on that. In general I agree that the lack of terrain is a problem for some armies, and the rulebook indeed recommends around a quarter of the table worth of terrain. It's hard though for event organizers to come up with that much terrain(remember, it isn't free) and it's an investment they see no return on so to speak. Perhaps if things are being organized as a group then a focus should be rounding up more varied terrain? Thanks to everybody for all the good games I've had over the years there. Cheers. James.
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Post by markd on Dec 12, 2011 9:43:53 GMT -5
Tyranids have something in their "tool drawer" to defeat everybody - but they must rely too much on list tailoring. Which makes some fluff sense when the Hive Mind would generate the creatures best able to defeat what they're fighting against. But fluff doesn't help in the Real World.
The codex isn't bad. It can win. In last month's GW store tournament I played Tyranids (almost the same list I took to Astronomicon) and got into the finals by defeating Guard, Mech Guard, Mech Guard and finally lost to... Mech Guard.
Unfortunately in the Real World, in order to have those units you must first buy and paint them all - not a minor investment in money or time. Then, if you want to play in Tournaments, the current structure is such that you have to have a list which can fight everybody equally (or at least all the major lists in your area).
Those are the two major "problems" with Tyranids. You have to own a tonne of models and make your list up to face your opponent (which is sometimes culturally frowned upon). And in a Tournament setting you must spread your best options too thinly - taking a little bit of everything because you don't know what you are going to face... and usually spread yourself too thin in the process. Against good opponents they will quickly pick off what you have that is the primary threat to them and leave what isn't alone until later. And if you've got enough redundancy in your primary threats to that army... you're likely to not have what will threaten a different one.
Tyranids aren't bad... they're just specalists. And if you don't have the right specalist for the job you need them for - you're more likely to lose.
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sara
SGU
Posts: 1,038
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Post by sara on Dec 12, 2011 11:49:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't uber hate the tyranid codex aka Cruddence must die. It's WAY better then the old one because more units are viable. The power gamers are upset because they cant carnifex lolstomp people with their bugs anymore (though fexes got extremely nerf sticked). I didnt even run the cheese dakka fex's back then. I did CC elite fexes, and I really miss them. They were quite the tank flippers. I had two sniperfexes, as they were anti armour (barbed strangers were pretty nasty then too, strength 8!) They got turned into tervigons as the sniper combo became illegal.
The big thing I miss about the old one is you had way more biomorph options to choose from.
The tyranids also have an amazing troop section. I just wish rippers didnt eat each other out of synapse, else deep striking/flying ones would be a viable option. The elite section is one of the huge problems. Some of those units need to be moved to fast attack or heavy. Lictors would be fine in fast, and pyrovores in heavy (even though they are terribad).
It's just they are retardly hard to play now. I don't want an "uber army that crushes everything" but its a chore these days to play them at tournaments, especially generalship ones. I like to play more challenging and interesting armies, but at the same time I feel like I'm being punished for playing my favorite things lol. I found I do great in sportsmanship events with the nids, as everyones armies are more reasonable to face when the goal is to make an interesting list. I still remember my 3rd place at that last one, that blew my mind!
With me, its mostly I need more hive guard. But I don't have the mojo to finish another brood. Gotta have the mojo, cant force yourself to hobby lol. Even with the competitive nid lists, they still struggle.
I want to switch to daemons for a while, yet they are just as hard to play. They do have more anti tank, though av14 is a huge problem. I haven't figured out my screamer conversion yet. I have my orks too, but my ork mojo hasn't been strong, since I am repainting them all and it got exhausting lol.
As for terrain. Mine is always available for events if needed. I made pieces that should keep the game interesting (armour and MC can get cover behind the coral etc), though my really big LoS blocker isn't done yet.
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Post by carlosthecraven on Dec 12, 2011 13:46:47 GMT -5
Hi
I didn't make it out often to Spellbinder's event (one or two a year), but I usually had a great time. I met a lot of good people there.
I found Brad's remark about losing in Kitchener amusing - on the whole, I have had tougher matches in Woodstock over the last year. A tourney a month for 4 years will make for solid players. Phoenix on the other hand has two pick-up evenings a month for 40K and open gaming on the weekends.
Cheers, Nate
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Aarkon
Administrator
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Post by Aarkon on Dec 13, 2011 7:59:46 GMT -5
The one thing I liked most about the Spellbinder stuff is how hard each game was. Now that's me, but I can totally see how other casual players might not enjoy it as much. But for the past 2+ years the stratford guys have ate, slept and prepared for tournaments. It's all we were doing. Every friday and saturday night there would be 3 or 4 tournament prep/test games getting played every weekend. So we were a group that was pretty hardcore into testing lists and learning to play better.
I can see how others might not be into that for sure. To answer Darrin though this year you showed up and it was generalship. But for 6 months of the year it wasn't. IN fact for 1/4 of the year Best sport got the top prize, for 1/4 of the year best painted got the top money. 1/4 of the year was best general (so 4 tournaments out of 12) and lastly it was overall that required you to have a nicely/fully painted army and not be an asshat as well as be a good player to win tip prize. So for 3/4 of the year the focus wasn't on -just- winning games.
It sucks you ended up here during that span though if that isn't your thing. And yeah when you got matched up with my Blood Angels I knew it wasn't going to be much of a game, that list I had was made to take on mech guard and it pulls apart a mech gaurd list every time I play tested it. So it did suck the way it worked out. However that being said timing was everything there. It isn't like Generalship was they only tournament type that Spellbinder ran.
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